Vehicle weight is another major factor that should be considered when selecting a converter. To learn more about what information the YouTube platform and other Google services may collect through and/or in connection with embedded video players and how Google may use that information, see their "How Google uses information from sites or apps that use our services" page and the Google Privacy Policy. (If you need to review or change these settings after you accept, you can do so from the Privacy Tools page.) This is why a disc clutch must be disengaged or the transmission shifted to neutral whenever the vehicle stops. Hence, you've commanded your torque converter every time your car shifted gears. (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). This setting is stored in your browser (or other user agent) in the gdpr[consent_types] cookie described in "Privacy and Cookie Preferences" above, so if you delete that cookie or access the Ate Up With Motor website from a different device, browser, or user agent, you will need to adjust this setting again if you still wish to hide the box. One thing Ive always wondered about was if any manufacturers looked into Wilson pre-selector gearboxes as a basis of an automatic. These cookies expire in about 15 days if the user clicks "Remember Me" when logging in; if not, the cookies normally expire when the user closes their browser (or other user agent), or, failing that, within about two days. The stock converter wouldn't with a big tune unless I was cruising at light throttle. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. There was also a kickdown mechanism that allowed the driver to disengage the clutch at road speeds between 13 and 56 mph (21 and 90 km/h) by flooring the accelerator, allowing the torque converter to again multiply torque. Well, I thought I did explain that in my reply post. So when the torque converter clutch engages there should be almost 0rpm difference between tc slip desired and tc slip act. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:54 pm, Post About Us - (author diagram). The DG series transmissions were notionally three-speed automatics (although early iterations were designed to start in second gear) with a torque converter lockup clutch. For people who want a broader overview, I would recommend a book by Philip G. Gott entitled Changing Gears: The Development of the Automotive Transmission, published by the SAE as part of their Historical Series in 1991. The valve was pushed open or closed by opposing pressures generated by a throttle-controlled valve and a centrifugal governor driven by the output shaft. Ate Up With Motor and its embedded content providers may use cookies and/or similar technologies and collect personal information about site visitors as described in the Privacy Policy and Cookie Notice. Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:39 am, Post Once engaged, the lockup clutch simply drove the output shaft at engine speed (not turbine speed). These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! For additional technical information about the cookies used by the analytics service, see their "Google Analytics Cookie Usage on Websites" page; for your reference when reviewing that page, we did not use Google Analytics 4. Even though Dyno numbers are just a number, For reference my 2018 Gen3 made 400rwhp/390rwtq stock with 5k miles on a Dynojet,, It hit the speed limiter at 6700. Privacy Policy. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. if I'm seeing "desired TC slip" of 1020rpm at all times wouldnt that pretty much guarantee the TC would never lock? One is turned by the enginge. . To serve up a little enlightenment, let's take a spin through the torque-converter world and make some sense out of all the superstition. I changed the transmission fluid (Mercon LV) at 63k miles back in 2017. Happens roughly 1-3 times in 30 mile drive at speeds of up to 60mph, and much more frequent at highway speeds (70+). The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. Ate Up With Motor, its logo, and other associated icons and graphics are trademarks and/or service marks of Aaron Severson dba Ate Up With Motor. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. With no slip at all. The DG series transmissions obtained their indirect ratios with a compound planetary gearset. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Your car will vibrate even when youre not going very fast. 10r80 Cars on the Dyno - TCC lock S or D - Mustang6G The replacement was a cheaper and somewhat simpler Borg-Warner unit which Studebaker-Packard called Flightomatic that deleted the DGs lockup clutch. Comments may be moderated. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. register to join our community At stall speed, the impeller is spinning at engine rpm and the turbine is stopped. (not Diameter) The cookies normally expire in about 10 days, and are not set at all if you do not access any password-protected content. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our Comment Policy please read it first! Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. Okay, so it sounds like you were able to identify a potential root cause. 6l90 TCC apply ramp strategy. ECCC - HPTuners abs, do you have any recommendations on how to troubleshoot a failing torque converter using ForScan? A Simpson gearset (which Ill be discussing in great detail in the next few days) provides the same number of ratios from only two gearsets, and a single Ravigneaux gearset can give you four forward speeds and reverse if you have enough clutches. Some iterations of the Studebaker Automatic Drive/Borg-Warner DG started in first gear, but early transmissions started in second unless the driver manually selected Low. This is not an official website of any automaker or automotive brand! Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. A healthy plate clutch slips only briefly when engaged or disengaged. Its job is to smoothly convert engine torque into hydraulic pressure that your transmission uses to engage and shift gears. Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. I don't think they had this in 2011 however. Tuning. The image file itself contains no personally identifiable information, but the loading of that file may be used to help identify and/or track you. another masterpiece. It is the lack of fluid that causes overheating, slipping, or shuddering. This is due in part to the technological advances in torque converters. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Overdrive ratios drive the torque converter at speeds generally below normal coupling speed, creating increased slippage and heat, which is unacceptable. Sure, there's all kind of talk about stall speed, slippage, and lockup features, but some gearheads secretly believe there's as much voodoo to a torque converter as there is science. In drive at 0 speed TCD should read 1020 rpm and TCA should be Engine RPM - To learn more about what information the Vimeo platform collects and how that information may be used, see the Vimeo Privacy Policy. However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. Your Transmission Fluid is Contaminated. If you are experiencing shuddering, also check your engine mounts. Filling the cylinder with pressurized oil would lock the pressure plate to the clutch plate itself, forcing the clutch and input shaft to rotate with the torus cover at engine speed. At some point Ford modified the wiring to include a thick rubber insulator on the wires that extended beyond the edge of the intake manifold to prevent the chaffing. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. (For each of these cookies, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash.) Stall speed is measured in the car by applying the brakes and revving the engine in First gear against the brakes. It was followed in fairly short order by the 1950 Studebaker Automatic Drive, which took a somewhat different approach to the same problem. By changing the angle of the impeller blades, the torque-converter manufacturer can create a converter that generates a given stall speed with a certain torque multiplication. He wondered if something internal may be damaged and the tow tune showed it up not allowing the torque converter to unlock soon enough which caused the bog down issue. & Tm. copyright 2023 AAMCO transmissions inc. The torque converter is so essential to the global car market theres a global torque converter market. If the payment button is visible, it may set the third-party cookies PYPF (via paypalobjects.com, which is owned by PayPal, Inc.), which appears to check whether or not you are a logged-in PayPal user, possibly to facilitate the PayPal user login process, and/or 01A1 (via abmr.net, which is owned by Akamai Technologies), which stores certain technical information about your device and browser (or other user agent), possibly to facilitate the login and shopping cart functions. Click to reveal by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 pm, Post Many times, people think there is something wrong with their transmission when the problem lies with their torque converter. Cookie Notice A flyweight 2,800-pound car like an early Mustang or Chevy II could use less multiplication to successfully launch on their relatively smaller rear tires. The speed difference between impeller and turbine is simply lost to heat within the operating fluid. To fix the problem, you need to discover the seal that's damaged and have it replaced. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. i called a trans shop and he had no answer,but it sounded strage to him. In this installment of Ate Up With Motor, we take a look at how GM, Ford, Chrysler, Packard, and Studebaker have approached this slippery problem from 1949 through the late eighties. The problems come in many sizes, shapes, and forms. * Various services, specials, or coupon offers are available at participating locations only. 4. In this design, the two basic components in the fluid coupling are the impeller blades (the drive side), which are connected to the engine, and the turbine blades (the driven member), which are splined to the input shaft of the transmission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Unsurprisingly, each engagement or disengagement of the lockup clutch felt like a shift, giving less technically knowledgeable drivers the mistaken impression that Ultramatic was a two-speed automatic. Contact Us - I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I agree that a manual transmission option would be great. These torque converters allow some slippage but it should not vary much from the desired PCM value. I wouldn't worry about it, but I'm not familiar with your specific transmission. Cookies whose names begin with "_ceg" are associated with the Crazy Egg web analytics service (which is subject to the Crazy Egg Privacy Policy and Cookie Policy). If you use the buttons to make a payment or donation, the PayPal services will set additional cookies (not listed here) to manage your PayPal login and transaction data (and potentially also for various other purposes, e.g., user analytics and/or advertising). The combination of a smaller-diameter and lighter converter means that less engine torque is required for acceleration. In the early Studebaker Automatic Drive (Borg-Warner DG) transmission, the flywheel drives the torque converter impeller, front pump, and lockup clutch pressure plate (red).